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Frequently Asked Questions.
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1. Performance1.1 How can you claim 100 mpg?Your Prius can already achieve 100 mpg; we are not changing that fact. These data are from our own experience driving our first conversion.
1.2 Aren't you getting something for nothing?We are not doubling the mpg for nothing. We are getting something for something: we're getting miles for electrical energy from the wall outlet. We are giving you a way of buying some of your energy from the Power Company instead of from an Oil Company; and that's cheaper, cleaner and politically wiser. 1.3 When you state 100 mph, aren't you glossing over the fact that part of the energy is coming from the grid?Yes. 1.4 How do you measure the total energy required (gas plus electric)?Miles per gallon can only be used to measure the energy from gas. It doesn't make sense to incorporate the electrical energy into that number. You can't convert units of electrical energy to "equivalent gallons of gas" because a car will use electricity more efficiently that gas, and in any case that depends on the car. ![]()
1.5 How far can you go on a charge?Prius:
![]() The mileage of a PHEV-30 Prius. Escape:
1.6 What is the difference between the Pure EV range and the PHEV range?
1.7 Is regenerative braking affected by the larger battery?The PHEV conversion has no effect on how much energy can be recovered from braking during normal driving. Yet, regenerative braking is not as impressive in a PHEV: because the PHEV battery can hold so much more energy than the standard HEV battery, the energy from regenerative braking from normal driving is a small portion of the energy in the pack. However, when coming down a long, big hill, the battery in a PHEV may be able to keep on taking energy from regenerative braking for a long time (about 1-1/2 hours), unlike the battery of an standard HEV, which is quickly filled. ![]() Prius PHEV display showing lots of regenerative braking when coming down a long hill. 1.8 How are your PHEV conversions better?Hybrids Plus conversions are generally recognized as the best, based on how well they are integrated in the vehicle, and because of their minimal impact on the vehicle is affected. This table compares Hybrids Plus PHEV conversions to all other conversions available today.
2. Driving2.1 Does drivng a PHEV Prius feel any different than driving a standard HEV Prius?No, not really. If you pay attention to it, you may notice that it drives purely electrically for longer periods. To most drivers, the only noticeable difference is the much higher efficiency shown in the "MPG" display. 2.2 Will the vehicle's display be any different?No. The conversion has no effect on the Prius display: it will behave exactly the same as before. 2.3 At what speed does the engine come on?That is determined by the car manufacturer; we do not change that. The following values are just for your reference, are not not specified, are approximate, and assume that the engine is warm, the battery is full, and that you're driving nice and easy:
But really, people who ask this question may be missing a very important point: The PHEV conversion doesn't turn your Hybrid into an Electric Vehicle: it's still a Hybrid, and it still uses both the engine and the motor. Most of the time both the engine and the motor are contributing power, in a varying proportion. It's just that, after a PHEV conversion, the car will favor the motor for longer periods that it did before the conversion; and that results into a higher mpg. So, it's really of small consequence whether the engine is on or off. Don't worry about the engine. Just enjoy the high mpg. 3. Charging3.1 Do I need a special charger?No. The charger is built into the Prius as part of the conversion. All you need is a power cord (included). 3.2 Does charging use standard household current?Yes. Any 110 V, 15 Amp outlet will do. If you plan to add an outlet for the specific purpose of charging a PHEV, please use these guidelines. Run a dedicated circuit (nothing else powered one this circuit), 125 volt, 20 amp rated, from the home electrical panel to the garage (parking location). Use a 20 A breaker, and a standard 15 A GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) outlet. This is the highest amperage rated receptacle normally used in residential applications and will provide adequate supply margins no matter how much current any 120 volt PHEV charging system might require. (Thanks to Don Francis.) 3.3 Can I use 220 V?Not directly. 3.4 How long does it take to charge?It depends on how discharged the battery is. 3.5 Do I need to find a public EV charging station?No. Any 110 Vac electrical outlet will do. 3.6 How do I charge my PHEV on a trip?If you really must, you can use any 110 V outlet you may find. 3.7 Can I only charge at home?No. You can charge wherever you can obtain access to a standard, 110 Vac outlet. The charger uses a standard extension cord, so if you forgot to carry one in the car, you can find one at any hardware store. 3.8 What if I don't charge it?The vehicle will run just on gasoline, just like a standard Prius. 3.9 Is it better to charge at night or whenever you can?Charging at night is cheaper for you if you are in an area where the cost of electricity goes down at night. However, if you drive a lot (more than your vehicle's PHEV range) to the point of discharging your battery, then you are better off charging during the day as well ("opportunity charging"), so you'll use more electricity and less gasoline (electricity is cheaper than gasoline). While it has been said that our grid couldn't handle lots of PHEVs plugging in all at the same time, when people get home, that in reality that is not a problem; a far worse problem is in the middle of a hot afternoon, when everyone turns on their air conditioning. A study by Keith Parks of NREL compares the effects of opportunity charging versus night-time charging of PHEVs. One conclusion is that daytime opportunity charging (from dirtier electricity) is still cleaner than burning gasoline. 3.10 Is there a "memory effect"?No. That's an effect on NiCd batteries only. We use LiIon. 4. Charging from non-conventional sources4.1 Can I use solar power?Yes. 4.2 Why not put solar panels directly on the car's roof?Nice idea! But not very practical. After a full sunny day, you will have gathered only enough energy to go a whopping 1/2 mile! It would take 1 month parked in a sunny spot to fully charge the PHEV battery. A much better approach would be to use a much bigger, appropriately oriented, array of Solar Panels, fixed to the ground, and use it to charge a PHEV. 4.3 Why not charge with wind power?There are four approaches to using wind energy to run your plug-in hybrid.
4.4 Why not charge from a generator powered by the wheels?This is also a common question, the answer to which is also: no. A generator would add drag to the car, more drag than the energy that it generates. Please see the discussion above, on a wind generator on top of the car. 5. Data logging5.1 Can I get a data logger?Various companies offer data loggers that can be plugged into the data bus (CAN Bus) in your car, including V2Green, Kvaser, Carchip and HEM Data. 6. Smart Charge6.1 What is Smart Charge?Smart Charge is a technology that lets the power company control the PHEV in real time, to postpone charging during time of peak demand. It also enables the owner and the power company to track the PHEV's usage and performance, while on the road and while charging. 6.2 What is the point of Smart Charge?
6.3 What is the difference between V2G and Smart Charge?In both V2G and Smart Charge, the power utility can control the power flow between a plug-in car and the power grid. However, in Smart Charge power only flows from the grid to the car, while in V2G power can flow in both directions. 6.4 Can I order Smart Charge for my PHEV?For Smart Charge, you need:
The V2Green offers these services on an yearly subscription basis:
Note that only the last option offers Smart Charge; all the other ones offer only data. Please contact V2Green for an explanation of their services. You have three options to get the Smart Charge hardware:
The base cost of all 3 options is the same. 7. Discharging into the grid: V2G and Inverger (TM)7.1 What is V2G?V2G (Vehicle-To-Grid), allows the electric power company to buy energy back from a PHEV or Electric Vehicle. This is how it works:
7.2 What is the point of V2G?
7.3 What does it take to do V2G?
7.4 Can you put V2G in my car?In some cases, yes; the following requirements must be met:
7.5 How much does it cost?We have not established a price yet; initially, the price will be high. 8. Money: costs and taxes8.1 How much does the conversion cost?Today conversions are very expensive. Please see our price list.
Most of this is to cover the cost of the high quality, LiIon cells. This price does not include the vehicle, nor tranportation of a vehicle to and from Boulder. 8.2 How can I justify so much money for a conversion?Today, people convert HEVs to PHEV for environmental and political reasons, and to be a pioneer in the PHEV field. They don't do it for personal economic reasons: today's conversion price is such that its cost cannot be recovered through fuel savings alone. 8.3 How do your prices compare with the rest of the industry?Hybrids Plus systems are widely considered to be the best technical PHEV conversions, commanding a relatively high price. This diagram compares most Prius PHEVs (whether they may be truly available today or just offered for delivery some later date). ![]() PHEV system range versus cost.(Reference) Range: usable capacity of battery; approximate range in blended mode during which the mpg is increased significantly. In general, there are two ways of doing a PHEV conversion:
Hybrids Plus systems are fully integrated. As you can see, among the companies that offer fully integrated systems, Hybrids Plus offers the lowest prices. The prices of tacked-on systems are indeed lower, for various reasons:
8.4 When will it make economic sense to get a conversion?We don't believe that economic factors alone should be considered when deciding to convert an HEV to PHEV. We believe that the ability to improve the environment, one's quality of life, one's sense of accomplishment and of having done one's part to help reduce international strife, are all important factors. However, for those who would make such as decision based mostly on personal economics, we have prepared an analysis to estimate the point at which PHEV conversions make economic sense. Mostly, two factors impact the economic viability of PHEV conversions:
Obviously as the price of gasoline increases, and battery prices decrease due to greater market demand, the PHEV conversion begins to make economic sense. Today's high prices are predicted to drop significantly as production ramps up. Given the following assumptions:
Then, in 2011 it will start making economic sense to convert your HEV to PHEV, and even more so every year thereafter. ![]() This is the spreadsheet we used: feel free to dowload it and play with the numbers. 8.5 How much will the electricity cost?Roughly, 3 cents / mile (reference). This is the equivalent of buying gasoline at about $ 1.50 per gallon. 8.6 Does this conversion qualify for Federal tax credits?Please talk to your accountant. To our knowledge there are no Federal Tax Credits for a PHEV conversion. There are tax credits for buying certain HEVs, as detailed by Nissan (pdf) 8.7 Does this conversion qualify for my state's tax credits?Please talk to your accountant.
8.8 Do you charge sales tax?We charge Colorado State sales tax only for vehicles that we deliver in Colorado: directly to you, to your representative, or to a shipping company that you hired. Those taxes are added to your final bill. 8.9 Does the price include the vehicle?No. The price is just for the conversion. 8.10 Do you offer volume discounts?Yes we do! Please contact us to learn about our quantity discounts. 8.11 Will you give me a discount if I advertise your company on my car?Sorry, no. We believe that our customers will either want signage on their car, or they won't. If they do, they'll put up signs because they are proud of their PHEV, not because we paid them to do it. At this point there is more interest in PHEV than the industry can accommodate. 9. Cars that can be converted9.1 Which cars can be converted?Theoretically, any Hybrid can be converted. However, it makes little sense to convert "mild hybrids" such as the Saturn Vue, since the benefits would be negligible, without also making major changes to the hybrid system. The 2004 and up Prius is by far the most commonly converted car. We convert the Escape Hybrid, and we have converted 2004 (and up) Prius. 9.2 Why don't you convert other models?As a business, we must decide for which HEVs a PHEV conversion make sense, and in which order they are designed. For some HEVs, too few were produced. For others, the conversion is too complex or technically not effective. 9.3 Do you convert present generation Prius cars?We have converted 14 Prius. At this point we are taking no new orders for a Prius. We are now retooling for a new Prius product. 9.4 Do you convert older generation Prius cars?No, sorry, at this point we only convert Prius model year '04 and up. No one converts the older generation Prius models for technical and economical reasons.
*Most PHEV converters use a product called CAN-View at the core of their conversion. CAN-View requires an ODB-II connector in the car (a troubleshooting aid used by the car mechanic); The older Prius doesn't have that connector. All PHEV conversions other than Hybdrids Plus rely on the EV Mode button; The older Prius doesn't have that button. More details 9.5 Do you convert the Ford Escape Hybrid?Yes, we do, and, at this point, we're the only company offering that service. 9.6 Do you convert the Mercury Mariner Hybrid?Yes, we can, as it uses the same system as the Ford Escape; though, we haven't been asked to do one yet. 9.7 Do you convert the Toyota Highlander?The interest in the Highlander is very strong. We explored the option of doing the Highlander, but in the end we decided against it due to technical limitations and low market demand. 9.8 Do you convert the Lexus RX400h?No, sorry. Since we are no longer considering the Highlander, which uses a similar system, we won't do the Lexus either. 9.9 Do you convert the Honda Insight?No, sorry. Because its engine must rotate whenever the car is moving, the Insight is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as not an appropriate choice for PHEV conversion. 9.10 Do you convert the Honda Civic?No, sorry. The number of Honda Civic HEVs sold was simply too small. 9.11 Do you convert the Toyota Camry?The interest in the Camry is very strong. However, we are unable to start a new project at this point. 9.12 Do you convert the Chevy Silverado?No, sorry, and we have no plan to do so. 9.13 Do you convert HEVs other than Prius and the Escape?No, sorry, at this point we don't. 9.14 Do you convert cars other than HEVs ?No, sorry, we don't. 10. Conversion process10.1 How long does it take to convert a car?The installation time is about 1 day. 10.2 Where can I get my car converted?Presently, Hybrids Plus performs all conversion in Boulder CO. 10.3 How extensive is the conversion?
10.4 Why do you remove the original battery?Two reasons. 1) Compared to the battery we use, the original battery is relatively big and heavy for the amount of energy that it holds. It doesn't make sense to carry that battery in your car, and we'd rather put our more efficient battery in that space. 2) The original battery uses a different chemistry, and it would be complicated for the electronics to deal with both the chemistry of the original battery, and the chemistry of our battery. 10.5 Are conversions available now?Yes. On a first come first served basis. 10.6 Are kits available?The Escape PHEV system is now available as a kit, but only to installers certified at the factory by Hybrids Plus.10.7 Are you the only ones doing conversions?No. We are one of the first ones. The PHEV market is now prime, and we expect that many companies will offer conversion services soon. This table compares all the Prius PHEV conversion options available. It is kept up to date continuously. 10.8 Can PHEVs be converted to run on E85 Biofuel (Ethanol)?We are strongly opposed to E85 programs (as presently conceived) for social and environmental reasons, and will have none of it. What you do with your car is up to you. But, before you do, please watch out for hype. To quote this Rolling Stone article: "Ethanol Scam: Ethanol Hurts the Environment And Is One of America's Biggest Political Boondoggles". BBC: "Biofuels: Green energy or grim reaper?", BBC: Biofuels 'crime against humanity' 10.9 Do you hack the vehicle to make it run more on electricity?No. The vehicle behaves exactly as the manufacturer programmed it to behave; we don't change that at all. We just replace the original battery (and the controller inside of it). Our battery talks to the vehicle in the same way as the original battery, so the vehicle has no idea that its original battery is gone. But, our battery tells the vehicle that it still has plenty of charge, so the vehicle keeps on using more electricity from the battery, and less gasoline. 10.10 Can I install a PHEV kit myself?Sorry, no. At this time only qualified installers trained by Hybrids Plus may install our PHEV systems. In any case, because it takes very little time to install our systems, the cost of the installation is a very small portion of the total cost. So, by installing it yourself, you would be saving very little money, yet you would be assuming the full risk for the installation. 11. Getting a car to convert11.1 Can I buy a complete PHEV from you?No, sorry. You must own your own Hybrid and then have us convert it to PHEV for you. 11.2 Should I buy a car here or in Boulder?It's as you wish. If you buy a car from your local dealer you get to drive it first, but then you have to have it trucked to Boulder, or drive it there. Buying from a Boulder/Denver dealer saves you that hassle. 11.3 Can you recommend a dealer in Boulder/Denver?We don't particularly recommend any particular dealer, so it's really up to you where you want to buy a car. We do suggest a couple of dealers that our clients have happily used in the past. We do not make any commission from dealers, and they do not offer any special pricing to our clients. It's just that they are happy to work with us and our clients, and we are happy to work with them.
11.4 Should I buy any particular model?
12. Ordering12.1 Which Prius model should I choose?The Prius-30 can store twice as much electricity as the Prius-15. Which model will work best for you depends on how much you tend to drive per day. (No need to consider how far you drive when you go on a trip: that's when the PHEV starts behaving like a regular HEV.)
Roughly, the threshold is 40 miles per day:
Consider also that:
12.2 How do I order?Please go to contact us and we will be glad to serve you. 12.3 What form of payment do you accept?We accept checks or electronic fund transfers. We do not accept credit cards. 12.4 What are your payment terms?
12.5 Can you ship me my car after it's converted?Yes, we do so regularly. We work with a network of auto trucking companies to ship your car anywhere in the US and Canada. We bill you for the actual shipping costs. 13. Environment13.1 Isn't charging from the wall just displacing the pollution to the power plant?Yes. However, the pollution generated by the utility's power plant is considerably less than the pollution generated by a gasoline engine. Therefore, you will be polluting the atmosphere less by utilizing the electric capacity of your vehicle.
In the US, power plants typically are powered by coal, hydro energy, nuclear energy, and natural gas.
Their pollution levels range from worst for coal, to none for hydro. Yet, even a coal fired plant is more efficient and less polluting (per mile driven) than a gasoline engine: it is easier and cheaper to control pollution in a single, large plant, than in many, small car engines. And, the Prius is so much more efficient that a standard car. So, when you look "from well to wheel", a mile driven electrically is far cleaner than a mile driven with gasoline. 13.2 Are the batteries safe for the environment?Yes. Lithium Ion batteries contain no heavy metals, no acids. They may be disposed safely and legally in a landfill. But why dispose of them when they can be recycled? These batteries contain materials that are worth recycling. 13.3 Isn't the world going to run out of Lithium (never mind running out of oil)?Indeed, there is a worry that "Peak Lithium" is just as much a concern as "Peak Oil". 14. Safety14.1 Can I get shocked?The Prius provides a high degree of protection and isolation of the user from its high voltage circuits. That is also the case for a Prius converted by Hybrids Plus. 14.2 What happens in case of accident?The Lithium Ion cells used by Hybrids Plus are the safest lithium-ion chemistry commercially available. 15. Warranty15.1 Will conversion affect my warranty?By law, the car manufacturer cannot void your warranty due to modifications to the vehicle that are not related to the area that needs service. Toyota shouldn't void your engine warranty if you install a cup-holder. Similarly, installing a different battery pack shouldn't void your warranty for anything but the battery pack itself and the high voltage components in the car. The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) discusses the issue well. An excerpt: "1.The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)) This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided." See also the Federal Trade Commission's description of the Magnuson-Moss act. This comes from a Toyota representative: ''Any modifications that are made to the vehicle will affect the warranty for the Toyota parts that are associated to the modification. The entire vehicle warranty would not be voided. If one of the components the customer installs causes damage to a Toyota part on the vehicle that part would no longer be under warranty. Toyota Fleet'' 15.2 What is the Hybrids Plus warranty?The battery cells are not warranted by their manufacturer. We did draft a warranty on our conversion, which remains unofficial, pending review from our attorneys. Its salient points are:
15.3 How long will the batteries last?The manufacturer of the cells specifies that cells are good for 2000 discharge cycles (under the conditions used in a Hybrids Plus conversion). At a range of 60 miles, that works out to 120,000 miles. 15.4 Where can I get service?We will give you technical support from our headquarters. In addition, we are developing a network of technical support people around the US. To resolve issues more rapidly, some of our clients have offered to do simple troubleshooting or even repairs, under our guidance, for which we are very grateful. In some cases, the client has elected to drive the car to our headquarters, or have it shipped there. In general, though, we will send a tech support person to your place. This map shows the network of tech support people as of April '08. ![]() 16. Technology16.1 Whose battery cells do you use?We use nano-phosphate (Iron-Phosphate) cells from very reputable US manufacturer, one that has requested not to be mentioned. 16.2 Why don't you use NiMH batteries? They're cheaper!Because they weight twice as much and are twice as big as LiIon cells (for a given amount of energy storage). Because they heat up more, requiring careful cooling. Because you can only use part of the energy they store (their life would be much shorter if charged and discharged completely). 16.3 Why don't you use Ultra Capacitors? They last forever!Because, for a given amount of energy storage, Ultra Capacitors are 20 times as big as LiIon cells, and they cost 10 times as much. reference 16.4 Why don't you use laptop batteries? They hold more energy!Those LiIon cells use Cobalt, whose safety has been seriously questioned. For example, the Tesla Motor company uses laptop-type cells, and they isolate them from each-other so that if one catches fire, others won't follow suit. Our LiIon cells use nano-Phosphate instead and they are inherently much safer. They would smolder if pierced, and may even burn if exposed to very high temperatures. But they they won't cause fires the way some laptop cells have done. 16.5 Why does it take all night to charge?We take as much power as physically possible out of a standard 110 V outlet. To charge any faster, we would have to use a 220 V outlet instead. 17. About Hybrids Plus17.1 How many cars have you converted so far?As of Feb '08, 22 cars:
Of them:
17.2 Do you have a newsletter?Yes. Please subscribe to it in the Contact us page. 17.3 Can I become a dealer / rep / installer / tech support person?We are well on our way to developing a program for dealers, installers and tech support people. Please contact us to express your interest. 17.4 PrivacyHybrids Plus values your privacy and the confidentiality of the information you choose to share with us. We keep confidential any personal information that you provide to us. This information includes your name, postal and email addresses, telephone number and other information you share with us. The personal information you provide is stored in a secure location, and only authorized people are able to access it. We use your data only to provide the information or services you request, and answer your questions. We do not share any individual data gathered online with anyone outside of Hybrids Plus unless you specifically authorize us to share your information. Our computer system is not configured to track, collect or distribute personal or identifiable information about the people who visit our web site. |
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